[gpfsug-discuss] Online data migration tool

Sven Oehme oehmes at gmail.com
Fri Dec 15 23:06:52 GMT 2017


i thought i answered that already, but maybe i just thought about answering
it and then forgot about it :-D

so yes more than 32 subblocks per block significant increase the
performance of filesystems with small files, for the sake of the argument
let's say 32k in a large block filesystem again for sake of argument say
16MB.

you probably ask why ?

if you create a file and write 32k into it in a pre 5.0.0 Version 16 MB
filesystem your client actually doesn't write 32k to the NSD Server, it
writes 512k, because thats the subblock size and we need to write the full
subblock (for security reasons). so first you waste significant memory on
the client to cache that zero padding, you waste network bandwidth and you
waste NSD Server cache because you store it there too. this means you
overrun the cache more quickly, means you start doing read/modify writes
earlier on all your nice large raid tracks... i guess you get the story by
now.

in fact,  if you have a good raid code that can drive really a lot of
bandwidth out of individual drives like a GNR system you get more
performance for small file writes as larger your blocksize is, because we
can 'pack' more files into larger i/os and therefore turn a small file
create workload into a bandwidth workload, essentially exactly what we did
and i demonstrated in the CORAL presentation .

hope that makes this crystal clear now .

sven



On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 10:47 PM Aaron Knister <aaron.s.knister at nasa.gov>
wrote:

> Thanks, Alex. I'm all too familiar with the trade offs between large
> blocks and small files and we do use pretty robust SSD storage for our
> metadata. We support a wide range of workloads and we have some folks
> with many small (<1M) files and other folks with many large (>256MB) files.
>
> My point in this thread is that IBM has said over and over again in
> presentations that there is a significant performance gain with the >32
> subblocks code on filesystems with large block sizes (although to your
> point I'm not clear on exactly what large means since I didn't define
> large in this context). Therefore given that the >32 subblock code gives
> a significant performance gain one could reasonably assume that having a
> filesystem with >32 subblocks is required to see this gain (rather than
> just running the >32 subblocks code on an fs w/o > 32 subblocks).
>
> This lead me to ask about a migration tool because in my mind if there's
> a performance gain from having >32 subblocks on the FS I'd like that
> feature and having to manually copy 10's of PB to new hardware to get
> this performance boost is unacceptable. However, IBM can't seem to make
> up their mind about whether or not the >32 subblocks code *actually*
> provides a performance increase. This seems like a pretty
> straightforward question.
>
> -Aaron
>
> On 12/15/17 3:48 PM, Alex Chekholko wrote:
> > Hey Aaron,
> >
> > Can you define your sizes for "large blocks" and "small files"?  If you
> > dial one up and the other down, your performance will be worse.  And in
> > any case it's a pathological corner case so it shouldn't matter much for
> > your workflow, unless you've designed your system with the wrong values.
> >
> > For example, for bioinformatics workloads, I prefer to use 256KB
> > filesystem block size, and I'd consider 4MB+ to be "large block size",
> > which would make the filesystem obviously unsuitable for processing
> > millions of 8KB files.
> >
> > You can make a histogram of file sizes in your existing filesystems and
> > then make your subblock size (1/32 of block size) on the smaller end of
> > that.   Also definitely use the "small file in inode" feature and put
> > your metadata on SSD.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Alex
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Aaron Knister
> > <aaron.s.knister at nasa.gov <mailto:aaron.s.knister at nasa.gov>> wrote:
> >
> >     Thanks, Bill.
> >
> >     I still don't feel like I've got an clear answer from IBM and frankly
> >     the core issue of a lack of migration tool was totally dodged.
> >
> >     Again in Sven's presentation from SSUG @ SC17
> >     (
> http://files.gpfsug.org/presentations/2017/SC17/SC17-UG-CORAL_V3.pdf <
> http://files.gpfsug.org/presentations/2017/SC17/SC17-UG-CORAL_V3.pdf>)
> >     he mentions "It has a significant performance penalty for small
> files in
> >     large block size filesystems" and the demonstrates that with several
> >     mdtest runs (which show the effect with and without the >32
> >     subblocks code):
> >
> >
> >     4.2.1 base code - SUMMARY: (of 3 iterations)
> >     File creation : Mean = 2237.644
> >
> >     zero-end-of-file-padding (4.2.2 + ifdef for zero padding):  SUMMARY:
> (of
> >     3 iterations)
> >     File creation : Mean = 12866.842
> >
> >     more sub blocks per block (4.2.2 + morethan32subblock code):
> >     File creation : Mean = 40316.721
> >
> >     Can someone (ideally Sven) give me a straight answer as to whether or
> >     not the > 32 subblock code actually makes a performance difference
> for
> >     small files in large block filesystems? And if not, help me
> understand
> >     why his slides and provided benchmark data have consistently
> indicated
> >     it does?
> >
> >     -Aaron
> >
> >     On 12/1/17 11:44 AM, Bill Hartner wrote:
> >     > ESS GL4 4u106 w/ 10 TB drives - same HW Sven reported some of the
> >     > results @ user group meeting.
> >     >
> >     > -Bill
> >     >
> >     > Bill Hartner
> >     > IBM Systems
> >     > Scalable I/O Development
> >     > Austin, Texas
> >     > bhartner at us.ibm.com <mailto:bhartner at us.ibm.com>
> >     > home office 512-784-0980 <(512)%20784-0980> <tel:512-784-0980
> <(512)%20784-0980>>
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > Inactive hide details for Jan-Frode Myklebust ---12/01/2017
> 06:53:44
> >     > AM---Bill, could you say something about what the metadataJan-Frode
> >     > Myklebust ---12/01/2017 06:53:44 AM---Bill, could you say something
> >     > about what the metadata-storage here was? ESS/NL-SAS/3way
> replication?
> >     >
> >     > From: Jan-Frode Myklebust <janfrode at tanso.net <mailto:
> janfrode at tanso.net>>
> >     > To: gpfsug main discussion list <gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org
> >     <mailto:gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org>>
> >     > Date: 12/01/2017 06:53 AM
> >     > Subject: Re: [gpfsug-discuss] Online data migration tool
> >     > Sent by: gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org
> >     <mailto:gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org>
> >     >
> >     >
> >
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > Bill, could you say something about what the metadata-storage here
> was?
> >     > ESS/NL-SAS/3way replication?
> >     >
> >     > I just asked about this in the internal slack channel #scale-help
> today..
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >
> >     > -jf
> >     >
> >     > fre. 1. des. 2017 kl. 13:44 skrev Bill Hartner
> <_bhartner at us.ibm.com_
> >     > <mailto:bhartner at us.ibm.com <mailto:bhartner at us.ibm.com>>>:
> >     >
> >     >     > "It has a significant performance penalty for small files in
> >     large
> >     >     > block size filesystems"
> >     >
> >     >     Aaron,
> >     >
> >     >     Below are mdtest results for a test we ran for CORAL - file
> >     size was
> >     >     32k.
> >     >
> >     >     We have not gone back and ran the test on a file system
> formatted
> >     >     without > 32 subblocks. We'll do that at some point...
> >     >
> >     >     -Bill
> >     >
> >     >     -- started at 10/28/2017 17:51:38 --
> >     >
> >     >     mdtest-1.9.3 was launched with 228 total task(s) on 12 node(s)
> >     >     Command line used: /tmp/mdtest-binary-dir/mdtest -d
> >     >     /ibm/fs2-16m-10/mdtest-60000 -i 3 -n 294912 -w 32768 -C -F -r
> >     -p 360
> >     >     -u -y
> >     >     Path: /ibm/fs2-16m-10
> >     >     FS: 128.1 TiB Used FS: 0.3% Inodes: 476.8 Mi Used Inodes: 0.0%
> >     >
> >     >     228 tasks, 67239936 files
> >     >
> >     >     SUMMARY: (of 3 iterations)
> >     >     Operation Max Min Mean Std Dev
> >     >     --------- --- --- ---- -------
> >     >     File creation : 51953.498 50558.517 51423.221 616.643
> >     >     File stat : 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
> >     >     File read : 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000
> >     >     File removal : 96746.376 92149.535 94658.774 1900.187
> >     >     Tree creation : 1.588 0.070 0.599 0.700
> >     >     Tree removal : 0.213 0.034 0.097 0.082
> >     >
> >     >     -- finished at 10/28/2017 19:51:54 --
> >     >
> >     >     Bill Hartner
> >     >     IBM Systems
> >     >     Scalable I/O Development
> >     >     Austin, Texas_
> >     >     __bhartner at us.ibm.com_ <mailto:bhartner at us.ibm.com
> >     <mailto:bhartner at us.ibm.com>>
> >     >     home office 512-784-0980 <(512)%20784-0980> <tel:512-784-0980
> <(512)%20784-0980>>
> >     >
> >     >     _
> >     >     __gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org_
> >     >     <mailto:gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org
> >     <mailto:gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org>> wrote on
> >     >     11/29/2017 04:41:48 PM:
> >     >
> >     >     > From: Aaron Knister <_aaron.knister at gmail.com_
> >     >     <mailto:aaron.knister at gmail.com <mailto:
> aaron.knister at gmail.com>>>
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >     > To: gpfsug main discussion list
> >     >     <_gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org_
> >     >     <mailto:gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org
> >     <mailto:gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org>>>
> >     >
> >     >     > Date: 11/29/2017 04:42 PM
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >     > Subject: Re: [gpfsug-discuss] Online data migration tool
> >     >     > Sent by: _gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org_
> >     >     <mailto:gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org
> >     <mailto:gpfsug-discuss-bounces at spectrumscale.org>>
> >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >
> >     >     > Thanks, Nikhil. Most of that was consistent with my
> understnading,
> >     >     > however I was under the impression that the >32 subblocks
> code is
> >     >     > required to achieve the touted 50k file creates/second that
> Sven has
> >     >     > talked about a bunch of times:
> >     >     >
> >     >     >
> >     >
> >      _
> http://files.gpfsug.org/presentations/2017/Manchester/08_Research_Topics.pdf_
> >     <
> http://files.gpfsug.org/presentations/2017/Manchester/08_Research_Topics.pdf_
> >
> >     >
> >      <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__files.gpfsug.org_presentations_2017_Manchester_08-5FResearch-5FTopics.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=UGLr4Z6sa2yWvKL99g7SuQdgwxnoZwhVmDuIbYsLqYY&e=
> >     <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__files.gpfsug.org_presentations_2017_Manchester_08-5FResearch-5FTopics.pdf&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=UGLr4Z6sa2yWvKL99g7SuQdgwxnoZwhVmDuIbYsLqYY&e=
> >>
> >     >     >
> >     >
> >      _
> http://files.gpfsug.org/presentations/2017/Ehningen/31_-_SSUG17DE_-_
> >     <
> http://files.gpfsug.org/presentations/2017/Ehningen/31_-_SSUG17DE_-_>
> >     <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__files.gpfsug.org_presentations_2017_Ehningen_31-5F-2D-5FSSUG17DE-5F-2D&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=Il2rMx4AtGwjVRzX89kobZ0W25vW8TGm0KJevLd7KQ8&e=
> >     <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__files.gpfsug.org_presentations_2017_Ehningen_31-5F-2D-5FSSUG17DE-5F-2D&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=Il2rMx4AtGwjVRzX89kobZ0W25vW8TGm0KJevLd7KQ8&e=
> >>
> >     >     > _Sven_Oehme_-_News_from_Research.pdf
> >     >     > _http://files.gpfsug.org/presentations/2016/SC16/12_-_
> >     <http://files.gpfsug.org/presentations/2016/SC16/12_-_>
> >     >
> >      <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__files.gpfsug.org_presentations_2016_SC16_12-5F-2D&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=u_qcvB--uvtByHp9H471EowagobMpPLXYT_FFzMkQiw&e=
> >     <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__files.gpfsug.org_presentations_2016_SC16_12-5F-2D&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=u_qcvB--uvtByHp9H471EowagobMpPLXYT_FFzMkQiw&e=
> >>
> >     >     > _Sven_Oehme_Dean_Hildebrand_-_News_from_IBM_Research.pdf
> >     >
> >     >
> >     >     > from those presentations regarding 32 subblocks:
> >     >     >
> >     >     > "It has a significant performance penalty for small files in
> large
> >     >     > block size filesystems"
> >     >
> >     >     > although I'm not clear on the specific definition of
> "large". Many
> >     >     > filesystems I encounter only have a 1M block size so it may
> not
> >     >     > matter there, although that same presentation clearly shows
> the
> >     >     > benefit of larger block sizes which is yet *another* thing
> for which
> >     >     > a migration tool would be helpful.
> >     >
> >     >     > -Aaron
> >     >     >
> >     >     > On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 2:08 PM, Nikhil Khandelwal
> >     >     <_nikhilk at us.ibm.com_ <mailto:nikhilk at us.ibm.com
> >     <mailto:nikhilk at us.ibm.com>>> wrote:
> >     >
> >     >     > Hi,
> >     >     >
> >     >     > I would like to clarify migration path to 5.0.0 from 4.X.X
> >     clusters.
> >     >     > For all Spectrum Scale clusters that are currently at 4.X.X,
> >     it is
> >     >     > possible to migrate to 5.0.0 with no offline data migration
> >     and no
> >     >     > need to move data. Once these clusters are at 5.0.0, they
> will
> >     >     > benefit from the performance improvements, new features
> (such as
> >     >     > file audit logging), and various enhancements that are
> >     included in
> >     >     5.0.0.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > That being said, there is one enhancement that will not be
> >     applied
> >     >     > to these clusters, and that is the increased number of
> >     sub-blocks
> >     >     > per block for small file allocation. This means that for file
> >     >     > systems with a large block size and a lot of small files, the
> >     >     > overall space utilization will be the same it currently is
> >     in 4.X.X.
> >     >     > Since file systems created at 4.X.X and earlier used a block
> >     size
> >     >     > that kept this allocation in mind, there should be very
> little
> >     >     > impact on existing file systems.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Outside of that one particular function, the remainder of the
> >     >     > performance improvements, metadata improvements, updated
> >     >     > compatibility, new functionality, and all of the other
> >     enhancements
> >     >     > will be immediately available to you once you complete the
> >     upgrade
> >     >     > to 5.0.0 -- with no need to reformat, move data, or take
> >     your data
> >     >     offline.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > I hope that clarifies things a little and makes the upgrade
> path
> >     >     > more accessible.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Please let me know if there are any other questions or
> concerns.
> >     >     >
> >     >     > Thank you,
> >     >     > Nikhil Khandelwal
> >     >     > Spectrum Scale Development
> >     >     > Client Adoption
> >     >     >
> >     >     > _______________________________________________
> >     >     > gpfsug-discuss mailing list
> >     >     > gpfsug-discuss at _spectrumscale.org_
> >     >
> >      <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__spectrumscale.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=Q-P8kRqnjsWB7ePz6YtA3U0xguo7-lVWKmb_zyZPndE&e=
> >     <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__spectrumscale.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=Q-P8kRqnjsWB7ePz6YtA3U0xguo7-lVWKmb_zyZPndE&e=
> >>
> >     >     > _http://gpfsug.org/mailman/listinfo/gpfsug-discuss_
> >     <http://gpfsug.org/mailman/listinfo/gpfsug-discuss_>
> >     >
> >      <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gpfsug.org_mailman_listinfo_gpfsug-2Ddiscuss&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=WolSBY_TPJVJVPj5WEZ6JAbDZQK3j7oqn8u_Y5xORkE&e=
> >     <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gpfsug.org_mailman_listinfo_gpfsug-2Ddiscuss&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=WolSBY_TPJVJVPj5WEZ6JAbDZQK3j7oqn8u_Y5xORkE&e=
> >>
> >     >
> >     >     > _______________________________________________
> >     >     > gpfsug-discuss mailing list
> >     >     > gpfsug-discuss at _spectrumscale.org_
> >     >
> >      <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__spectrumscale.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=Q-P8kRqnjsWB7ePz6YtA3U0xguo7-lVWKmb_zyZPndE&e=
> >     <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__spectrumscale.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=Q-P8kRqnjsWB7ePz6YtA3U0xguo7-lVWKmb_zyZPndE&e=
> >>
> >     >
> >     >     > _https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?_
> >     <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?_>
> >     >     >
> >     >
>  u=http-3A__gpfsug.org_mailman_listinfo_gpfsug-2Ddiscuss&d=DwICAg&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-
> >     >     >
> >     >
>  siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=DHoqgBeMFgcM0LpXEI0VCYvvb8ollct5aSYUDln2t68&s=iOxGm-853L_W0XkB3jGsGzCTVlSYUvANOTSewcR_Ue8&e=
> >     >
> >     >     _______________________________________________
> >     >     gpfsug-discuss mailing list
> >     >     gpfsug-discuss at _spectrumscale.org_
> >     >
> >      <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__spectrumscale.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=Q-P8kRqnjsWB7ePz6YtA3U0xguo7-lVWKmb_zyZPndE&e=
> >     <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__spectrumscale.org&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=Q-P8kRqnjsWB7ePz6YtA3U0xguo7-lVWKmb_zyZPndE&e=
> >>_
> >     >     __http://gpfsug.org/mailman/listinfo/gpfsug-discuss_
> >     <http://gpfsug.org/mailman/listinfo/gpfsug-discuss_>
> >     >
> >      <
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__gpfsug.org_mailman_listinfo_gpfsug-2Ddiscuss&d=DwMFaQ&c=jf_iaSHvJObTbx-siA1ZOg&r=Ew59QH6nxuyx6oTs7a8AYX7kKG3gaWUGDGo5ZZr3wQ4&m=KLv9eH4GG8WlXC5ENj_jXnzCpm60QSNAADfp6s94oa4&s=WolSBY_TPJVJVPj5WEZ6JAbDZQK3j7oqn8u_Y5xORkE&e=
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> >
> >     --
> >     Aaron Knister
> >     NASA Center for Climate Simulation (Code 606.2)
> >     Goddard Space Flight Center
> >     (301) 286-2776 <tel:%28301%29%20286-2776>
> >     _______________________________________________
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>
> --
> Aaron Knister
> NASA Center for Climate Simulation (Code 606.2)
> Goddard Space Flight Center
> (301) 286-2776
> _______________________________________________
> gpfsug-discuss mailing list
> gpfsug-discuss at spectrumscale.org
> http://gpfsug.org/mailman/listinfo/gpfsug-discuss
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